Santos out until March for no good reason
by Thomas Wachtel on Dec 12, 2011 10:33 AM EST
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The Olympiakos squad selection crisis deepens, as the club have announced that Andre Santos will miss at least three months with an ankle injury. The ligament damage he suffered in Arsenal's final (completely meaningless) Champions League match will require surgery to fully heal. This is a massive blow, as Santos had been playing well enough to likely keep his first-team place even after Kieran Gibbs returns from his injury (which he hopes will heal in time to return by the end of December). Also, obviously, there's the fact that Gibbs, our only other real left back, is (as I mentioned) currently injured, and gets hurt at the drop of a hat.
So, yeah, I'm pretty upset that Santos played in a game that held no meaning to Arsenal. I saw some fans on Twitter complaining about us and other teams resting players in their last group stage matches, and Andre Santos is a classic case study in why you do what they (and we, kind of) did. Because Santos played in a match that didn't matter to us, he's out until spring, and our chances at advancing in the Champions League and FA Cup and placing top four in the Premier League are damaged. No offense, but I really don't care who else makes it out of our group. I doubt fans of Bayern Munich, or any other team in the Champions League, do either. I can almost guarantee that the clubs themselves are fully self-interested as well. There is no reason for a football club to play first-team players if it has already won its group. If Marseille and Dortmund wanted in the next round, they could have done that by managing more than two cumulative points against us. This is the reward for winning the group early: you don't have to try in your last game. For some reason we decided to eschew that reward, and now there's this.
So now we must continue to play our center-backs as full-backs for the foreseeable future, and probably occasionally to spell Gibbs even after/if he comes back healthy. Arsene Wenger has said that we may look into signing a full-back in January, according to Jamie Sanderson, and I would say that's a necessary course of action. Playing Thomas Vermaelen out of position, in every game for months, is an untenable situation. I'm not totally confident in Ignasi Miquel's ability to hang with top-flight competition week in and week out, so the only option really is to buy in the winter window (though Miquel could certainly prove me wrong). There have been legitimate links to Jan Vertonghen of Ajax, who has a few traits that make him attractive. He's versatile - he can play left back and in the center of the defense, as well as in a defensive midfield role, so he could really be cover for all of our center backs, a starting/cover left back, and cover for Alex Song as well. Also he's a former club teammate and international compatriot of Vermaelen's, and the two are supposedly friends.
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I have yet to hear a single convincing reason why he should have played
the closest was “he gave us solidity,” which is irrelevant in a game the outcome of which I don’t care about and if anything is the reason why he’s important to us in the long run. GOD DAMN IT.
WRITTEN IN THE STAAAAARS, A MILLION MILES AWAAAAAAY
I write about the Arsenal for The Short Fuse.
by Thomas Wachtel on Dec 12, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
Sounded like he was also short on fitness
Which, if that’s the case then you run his ass off in training, not getting in games that have no meaning.
"I know you're from Middle America, and sometimes you feel like you're representing more than just a school or a conference, maybe an entire group of American citizens out there."
by Twin Cities Hawk on Dec 12, 2011 11:42 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
We need one of the water bottle toss and kick...
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I have a feeling that this would've probably happened even if he didn't play in Greece
and played against Everton. Just saying. ARSENALINCRISIS
by Sabrina Dessipe on Dec 12, 2011 11:16 AM EST reply actions
Well, lets start up the transfer talk right now...
We don’t really have a choice, we need some fullback depth to come in this January because we can’t keep relying on our center backs to replace them, because if one of them goes down, in more or lesser terms, we’re completely fucked. As stated above, I’ve heard multiple times about Vertonghen (is that how you spell that?) looking for a move to the EPL, but Chelsea is looking at him as well. You could also consider one of the guys we just saw last weekend in Leighton Baines, Everton have been financially stricken for quite some time, and even though they might be reluctant to sell one of their best players, the right price might just convince them. Thoughts? Other Suggestions?
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I talked about Vertonghen a bit in the story
so you know I like him. Aidan’s talked about Andreas Beck from Hoffenheim in the past, obviously Baines has been linked in the past, and some people are talking about Phillip Lahm (which won’t happen).
I hate doing transfer talk this early. ARGH.
WRITTEN IN THE STAAAAARS, A MILLION MILES AWAAAAAAY
I write about the Arsenal for The Short Fuse.
by Thomas Wachtel on Dec 12, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
potential grab?
Timothy Chandler? Possibly on the move, he’s shown adaptability for the usmnt playing right or left back. Perhaps he could make the move from Germany to EPL?
by Timothy Winning Voyles on Dec 12, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
Not that high on Chandler
AAARRRRRRRSSSSSHHHHHHHHAAAAAAVVVVVIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNN!
Dream goal!
by Aidan Gibson on Dec 12, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
I doubt there's any chance of getting baines.
They’re barely hanging on as it is.
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by silverace99 on Dec 12, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder if Arsene is giving Brek Shea a look as a back in training.
A Donovan-like loan deal could make a lot of sense as long as he’s willing to commit to playing defense.
is he really THAT good?
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yeah
Brek is the real deal. He’s got amazing pass, likes to take on players 1v1 in space. He has shown promise on crossing ability. He played a few games as cb and lb for FCD at the beginning of the season. He’s just too much offense to not play mid in MLS. He’s a natural lefty. He can use some work on his first touch, he’s 22 so that’s to be expected. Fact is he could probably be taken from FCD/MLS for 5-8 mil us.
by Timothy Winning Voyles on Dec 12, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
pace* not pass, but his passing is nice as well.
by Timothy Winning Voyles on Dec 12, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
Not sure if we could "take" him since he just signed a 3 year deal with Dallas
but I’d really like to get him on loan
Doubt he'll go for 5-8 mil.
MLS won’t sell one of their bright players for that cheap of an amount, they want to set a precedent that they can create young talented stars that can play anywhere in the world. Brek won’t be sold for less than 10-12 mil, and that’s why his next couple years are going to end up being at FCD or somewhere else in the MLS…
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If you think Englishmen are overpriced, they've got nothing on American stars in MLS
WRITTEN IN THE STAAAAARS, A MILLION MILES AWAAAAAAY
I write about the Arsenal for The Short Fuse.
by Thomas Wachtel on Dec 12, 2011 10:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Aly Cissokho
Would be expensive, but we wouldn’t have to worry about LB for years.
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by 3k on Dec 12, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
We get it Thomas. We also agree with you.
But for the sake of all things alcoholic, let it go.
Alex Song - Krunk as Fuck!
unnecessary...?
UMD Bulldogs: 2011 NCAA DI Men's Hockey Nat'l Champions; 2009 & 2011 NCAA DII Football Nat'l Champions
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I happen not to agree so much
He’s a grown man playing football, not a feeble little schoolgirl being packed off to go cave-diving. If he was lacking then playing in a match is a good way of getting his sharpness back, esp. in a game where a mistake due to said fitness doesn’t matter. Plus accidents happen. Plus^2 we are talking about Santos, not the ‘one-man-team’.
Yeah...
Count me in the let it go camp as well.
Could have gotten injured in the Stoke game or in training.
it happens.
But he got injured in a meaningless game
That’s what is infuriating, that Wenger was willing to let two key players, Vermaelen and Santos, play in that game, on a shitty pitch, when they could’ve rested at home.
AAARRRRRRRSSSSSHHHHHHHHAAAAAAVVVVVIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNN!
Dream goal!
by Aidan Gibson on Dec 12, 2011 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not saying he should have played, I'm saying to let it go. We've complained enough already.
Alex Song - Krunk as Fuck!
by Midasknight on Dec 13, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
Injuries DO happen. But it's a case of "you make your own luck" as well here.
There was no need to risk Santos and Vermaelen on this game WHAT. SO. EVER. They should both have been rested.
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by silverace99 on Dec 13, 2011 12:34 AM EST up reply actions
I'm in this camp too.
Arsene knows the risks involved. For all we know, he may have told Santos to take it easy out there and Andre didn’t listen.
We’ve benefited from plenty of pointless injuries over the years. That’s just the way the game goes.
Captain, there are doubt''s...
No.
WRITTEN IN THE STAAAAARS, A MILLION MILES AWAAAAAAY
I write about the Arsenal for The Short Fuse.
by Thomas Wachtel on Dec 12, 2011 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
wrong side of the pitch
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I have the day off and I'm watching Chelsea/Man City
So far, Man City looks like they’re going to drop about a baker’s dozen on Chelsea.
"I know you're from Middle America, and sometimes you feel like you're representing more than just a school or a conference, maybe an entire group of American citizens out there."
by Twin Cities Hawk on Dec 12, 2011 3:09 PM EST reply actions
Yet, they didn't. I reckon we have a chance
AAARRRRRRRSSSSSHHHHHHHHAAAAAAVVVVVIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNN!
Dream goal!
by Aidan Gibson on Dec 12, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
The announcer just said they're going to have a special feature on Ashley Cole during halftime
Can’t wait to see what it’s about. It could be tips on how to meet with rival clubs in hotels during the middle of the day and think nothing wrong of it. It could be how to be a curmudgeonly bastard with no regard of anything around him other than himself.
It could be how tough it is to grow old and alienate everyone around you, thus leaving you friendless and lonely. Yeah, I think it’s about that.
"I know you're from Middle America, and sometimes you feel like you're representing more than just a school or a conference, maybe an entire group of American citizens out there."
by Twin Cities Hawk on Dec 12, 2011 3:12 PM EST reply actions
Man City just strung together about 25 passes while Chelsea chased shadows
This isn’t fair
"I know you're from Middle America, and sometimes you feel like you're representing more than just a school or a conference, maybe an entire group of American citizens out there."
by Twin Cities Hawk on Dec 12, 2011 3:14 PM EST reply actions
Chelsea's getting chippy
Also, is it me or does Meireles look like a white supremacist?
"I know you're from Middle America, and sometimes you feel like you're representing more than just a school or a conference, maybe an entire group of American citizens out there."
by Twin Cities Hawk on Dec 12, 2011 3:16 PM EST reply actions
Stamford Bridge applauds after Chelsea holds possession for more than 30 seconds
"I know you're from Middle America, and sometimes you feel like you're representing more than just a school or a conference, maybe an entire group of American citizens out there."
by Twin Cities Hawk on Dec 12, 2011 3:18 PM EST reply actions
Oh, BREAKING NEWS
Samir Nasri started on the bench. You know, because it’s much easier to hold onto your bags of money sitting as opposed to running.
"I know you're from Middle America, and sometimes you feel like you're representing more than just a school or a conference, maybe an entire group of American citizens out there."
by Twin Cities Hawk on Dec 12, 2011 3:26 PM EST reply actions
I just woke up after falling asleep at this and it's 1-1
FEEL THE EXCITEMENT!!!
"I know you're from Middle America, and sometimes you feel like you're representing more than just a school or a conference, maybe an entire group of American citizens out there."
by Twin Cities Hawk on Dec 12, 2011 3:41 PM EST reply actions
Well Chelsea now suddenly look like...Chelsea
"I know you're from Middle America, and sometimes you feel like you're representing more than just a school or a conference, maybe an entire group of American citizens out there."
by Twin Cities Hawk on Dec 12, 2011 4:08 PM EST reply actions
Clichy off with a second yellow
CITEH IN CRISIS
"I know you're from Middle America, and sometimes you feel like you're representing more than just a school or a conference, maybe an entire group of American citizens out there."
by Twin Cities Hawk on Dec 12, 2011 4:17 PM EST reply actions
I was hoping Balotelli or Aguero would get one
You know, so they’re off next week
"I know you're from Middle America, and sometimes you feel like you're representing more than just a school or a conference, maybe an entire group of American citizens out there."
by Twin Cities Hawk on Dec 12, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
No! Clichy is terrible!
Gervy and Theo would’ve ripped past him
AAARRRRRRRSSSSSHHHHHHHHAAAAAAVVVVVIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNN!
Dream goal!
by Aidan Gibson on Dec 12, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
Or Kolo, if he plays right and Zabaletta left.
AAARRRRRRRSSSSSHHHHHHHHAAAAAAVVVVVIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNN!
Dream goal!
by Aidan Gibson on Dec 12, 2011 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
Clichy sees red? Arsenal can't take advantage?
CLUB STILL IN CRISIS
Oh my
Man City with a handball in the box, penalty shot to Chelsea
"I know you're from Middle America, and sometimes you feel like you're representing more than just a school or a conference, maybe an entire group of American citizens out there."
by Twin Cities Hawk on Dec 12, 2011 4:40 PM EST reply actions
Lampard's going to take it
"I know you're from Middle America, and sometimes you feel like you're representing more than just a school or a conference, maybe an entire group of American citizens out there."
by Twin Cities Hawk on Dec 12, 2011 4:40 PM EST reply actions
2-1 Chelsea
Lampard got his cankle on the ball and drove it past Hart
"I know you're from Middle America, and sometimes you feel like you're representing more than just a school or a conference, maybe an entire group of American citizens out there."
by Twin Cities Hawk on Dec 12, 2011 4:41 PM EST reply actions
He didn't celebrate with his manager!
AVB IN CRISIS
City losing!!!
Now ref, if you would please, card everyone on the field. Thank you very much.
You remember that time when the invincible lost on a late PK
…oh wait
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
by bearcatcardfan on Dec 12, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
how did this santos thread become a chelski v etihad city open game thread?
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Right. Let's fucking beat them next week.
AAARRRRRRRSSSSSHHHHHHHHAAAAAAVVVVVIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNN!
Dream goal!
It sucks that it happened.
But I’m not furious. Wenger rested just about everyone else, and it was just by chance that the one person he didn’t got hurt. It sucks, and maybe he shouldn’t have played him, but that’s the way it goes.
Carter Jurica!
"Has anyone really been for even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?"
by GrahamCrakalaka on Dec 12, 2011 9:02 PM EST reply actions
I think one can say it's the way it goes if he gets hurt playing against City this weekend, for instance
but it was an unnecessary risk, no? Isn’t part of managing a club knowing when it’s best to limit risk?
How is it any better for us if he's injured at City?
It’s probably worse. Now we’ve prepared to play without him. If he gets injured during a b ggame like that we have to use a sub we perhaps weren’t planing to likely throwing off the entire plan and our chance of taking anything from the match. Best we start with the fullbackless defense then have to throw a CB in out of position in the middle of a match.
by Sabrina Dessipe on Dec 12, 2011 9:49 PM EST up reply actions
Well, that would also be bad
but the risk involved in playing him is well worth any potential payoff, whereas at Olympiakos, it wasn’t.
by Ted Harwood on Dec 12, 2011 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
also, there's no guarantee he gets injured vs. City
Playing a starter in a game like City is a necessary risk. That’s their job. Playing him against Olympiakos was, to me, the equivalent of asking him to ride a motorcycle through a pit full of crocodiles, all of which were on fire.
by Ted Harwood on Dec 12, 2011 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
But he wasn't injured by another player
it’s something that could’ve happened at any time anywhere.
by Sabrina Dessipe on Dec 13, 2011 7:42 AM EST up reply actions
But there is the idea that it is a little presumptious to say we know better than our manager
We THINK we know under what circumstances he played but we don’t KNOW under what circumstances he played. Besides, It’s not like Arsene had a long list of options. Maybe Miquel was injured himself? Maybe disciplinary issues? Should Koscielny have played instead?
This is not the craziest injury scenario that we’ve dealt with this year.
Captain, there are doubt''s...
I agree that we don't have all the information
and I almost always back Wenger against the harshest criticism. However, in this case, there are a few things that mystify me:
1) He played all reserves except for Vermaelen and Santos. Why NOT them, too?
2) It is precisely the type of game that a young player such as Miquel or Yennaris would gain valuable experience from.
3) There was zero to be gained from the risk. Zero. Now, all it was was a risk—there was no guarantee that anyone gets hurt.
I’m just saying, given the options available to him in team selection, this one seemed, from the outside, to have the fewest reasons going for it, whereas starting Miquel and Yennaris had MANY reasons going for them. Better to save Santos and Vermaelen and keep them fresh for an encounter against Everton and City, in my opinion.
by Ted Harwood on Dec 12, 2011 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
Your argument is sound but incomplete
There are all kinds of reasons Santos should have played and all kinds of reasons he shouldn’t. Many of them are good, many of them are bad and the overwhelming majority of reasons are unknown to us. Barring any hard evidence that AW did something sinister, I think its unfair to criticize him for having one of his few available defenders play defense.
Captain, there are doubt''s...
I can't think of a single reason Miquel shouldn't have started in his place.
But I admit that I don’t know everything (BLOGGER IN CRISIS)
I'm sorry, but what reasons should Santos have played exactly?
I count 0 on my fingers.
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by silverace99 on Dec 13, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
Well, one reason is ...
… to have at least a FEW starters mixed in with the youngsters so that the youngsters get some play time with the starters, not just play time in a vacuum.
Also, a stronger backline should help clean up any mistakes in the middle and keep the young players from getting emotionally down.
I don’t necessarily think these are valid reasons (nor do I think they are NOT valid reasons), but they may very well have factored into it.
Let me ask you this, Ted, and Thomas, why aren’t you livid that RvP played the entire Wigan match? You should be more mad about that.
Just because something worked, doesn’t make it the correct play. Just because something didn’t work, doesn’t make it the wrong play.
Alex Song - Krunk as Fuck!
by Midasknight on Dec 13, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
those are very weak justifications
Santos is our starting left back, with no natural substitute to cover for him. His importance in our starting lineup was too critical to play him in a meaningless game. Now we’re forced to play all our fullbacks until the new year, meaning none of them gets rested. God help us if one of THEM gets injured as well.
It was the wrong play AND it didn’t work.
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by silverace99 on Dec 13, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
typo: Now we're forced to play all our CENTER backs, not our fullbacks
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The game in which Santos was injured was essentially a friendly.
There were league points at stake in the Wigan match. There was absolutely no reason to play Santos in that CL game
What minute did RvP score his goal to make it 4-0 (up from 3-0)?
The game was long over. RvP should have been long gone by your Santos logic.
Alex Song - Krunk as Fuck!
I actually do think he should have been subbed off, myself.
Maybe I’ve been playing too much Football Manager.
Actually, that’s always true, or perhaps impossible.
It's addicting that's for sure
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
by bearcatcardfan on Dec 13, 2011 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
Oh man, you are in for a treat
It is basically a huge simulation game where you manage a football team, from hiring the physios to changing the in-game tactics. It doesn’t sound like much on paper, but it is the single most addicting thing ever made, except for possibly heroin or nicotine.
by Ted Harwood on Dec 13, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
or caffeine
caffeine is a hell of a drug.
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
by bearcatcardfan on Dec 13, 2011 6:24 PM EST up reply actions
link?
or google search?
I’m incredibly busy at work despite my chronic visiting of Arsenal and Rams blogs.
I may google search tonight at home
Alex Song - Krunk as Fuck!
don't do it man
You’ll be on the street begging for a hit in no time
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by silverace99 on Dec 14, 2011 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
I googled and looked.
The cost is in pounds? I don’t have any pounds, just dollars.
Also, it apparently runs on Steam and is not multiplayer.
It looks very interesting. Maybe after Christmas.
Alex Song - Krunk as Fuck!
by Midasknight on Dec 14, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
it IS multiplayer, if you so wish.
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by silverace99 on Dec 14, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, he should of!
AAARRRRRRRSSSSSHHHHHHHHAAAAAAVVVVVIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNN!
Dream goal!
by Aidan Gibson on Dec 13, 2011 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
This is my thing
Injuries happen, that’s just a part of the game. But this particular player got injured in a game in which there was no need for him to play, which makes it all the more frustrating – there was absolutely nothing at stake in the game, Arsenal had already qualified for the knockout stages, so why bother playing anybody that, if injured, would be missed? There was absolutely no point in having Santos play in this game.
If it were against Manchester City or Chelsea, at least there was something at stake.
Arseblog suggests that Santos could have been playing to gain further fitness
that’s the ONLY conceivable reason he would have been, to my mind.
Which one is the better outcome?
As much as I hated it when I saw TV5 and Santos on the pitch for Olympiakos match, after some thoughts, I don’t see much difference in following scenarios.
Santos suffers ankle an injury during a match on 12/6, out for Man City match and sidelined for 3 months.
Santos suffers an ankle injury during a match on 12/10, out for Man City match and sidelined for 3 months.
It is not a guarantee that Santos would have suffered an ankle injury in another match though
And again, at least in the 12/10 match there was something to play for so it could be deemed “worth it” that Santos played.
you're not getting it
Playing the Injury game is like playing Poker
Just because it could happen in any game doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t play the odds. Santos and Verm should NOT be played in meaningless games. PERIOD. When you take a risk there has to be a tangible benefit. There wasn’t any in the Olympiakos match.
I don’t know why this is such a hard concept for people.
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by silverace99 on Dec 14, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
I fully understand. It isn't a hard concept. I just don't necessarily agree.
I, for one, don’t think I know more about how to run Arsenal than Arsene Wenger does.
Alex Song - Krunk as Fuck!
by Midasknight on Dec 14, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This isn't about thinking you're better than the manager
It’s common sense. You don’t take a risk if there’s no reward. I’m not sure what part of that you don’t agree with.
Wenger made a mistake. He is not perfect. It’s ok to admit. Nobody is yelling SACK WENGER.
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by silverace99 on Dec 14, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
I might be as mad as you if it was Vermy that got hurt. I've been under impressed with Santos.
He’s like a backup anyway. I’d rather see one of our young guns back there anyway.
How’s that for a change of topic?
Alex Song - Krunk as Fuck!
by Midasknight on Dec 14, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
Sigh.
I get it.
You don’t get that I am not convinced there was no reward.
Alex Song - Krunk as Fuck!
at least in Wenger's mind
I’m mostly playing devil’s advocate but you seem to want me to simply agree with you and shut up.
Alex Song - Krunk as Fuck!
I don't want you to shut up, not at all
I just don’t see what the reward was for this particular match. Arsenal had nothing to play for – they had already qualified for the knockout stage, and there was literally no consequence to whether they won or lost. So why not field a team made entirely of reserves, to prevent exactly this kind of thing from happening? Why risk a regular player in a game that has no consequence?
What, in your view, was the reward of this game?
I don't know what the reward could have been.
Certainly, Arsenal had nothing to gain from a win/lose perspective, but maybe the few starters that played did so to give the other young players some playtime WITH people they’d likely play with rather than the entire group being backups. Develop some chemistry, so to speak.
Maybe Vermaelen needed the playtime to get his fitness up. Maybe Santos was dating some Greek chick and wanted to impress her. :P
I don’t disagree that the possible reward wasn’t worth the risk, I just disagree that we assume Wenger was clueless here. We don’t know what he was thinking.
… and I’m sure we’re all tired of talking about it.
Alex Song - Krunk as Fuck!
I don't assume Wenger was clueless
I feel that he was incorrect in playing him, but he did so for his own reasons. I’m thinking it was in fact to impress a Greek chick – that’s the most rational reason I can think of!
Nobody said Wenger was clueless.
We’re saying he had a massive brain fart playing his only healthy fullback in a meaningless game.
Judging from your arguments, even you’re not convinced that there’s really a reward, you’re just not convinced that Wenger could make such a colossal mistake, so therefore he couldn’t have.
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That's what I question.
you say he could have a reason, but when pressed to present a decent example, none follows. Your logic then moves to “well i don’t know, but Wenger must have….just because he’s the manager”
I have to dispute that. It’s like when something really bad happens and saying “well, god must have his reasons”
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by silverace99 on Dec 15, 2011 12:14 AM EST up reply actions
hopefully i don't sound like an asshole there
but i don’t believe in the “manager knows all” school of thought. I wouldn’t argue with wenger over things like training regimens or game tactics but this team selection i cannot let slide.
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by silverace99 on Dec 15, 2011 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
No, you definitely don't.
This is such a limited way of communicating and it’s easy to take things the wrong way. I think most people on this board are civil and smart enough to not read things the wrong way.
For me, i don’t say the “manager knows all” but I certainly say the “manager knows more.” And besides, it’s not like he was asking Santos or TV5 to climb onto an ICBM and fly to the moon. I think we’re all suffering from shell-shock or PTSD. We’ve endured so many devastating injury related periods recently (broken legs, important missed games, backup after backup, Jens Lehman (Jens Lehman!!!)) that every knew incident just seems cruel.
Captain, there are doubt''s...
Chill guys
Sure Arsenal could have sent their supporters on to play the Olympiakos match (wouldn’t that be awesome?) But there could be many other reasons the 2 first team players were in that match. Gaining fitness, experience for youth, gaining understanding with backups, etc. It could have even been for a disciplinary reason that players and manager chose to keep in-house. Obviously, we as fans always judge things on results. So it was a mistake because Santos got injured.
As I mentioned before, what’s done is done and Santos’ injury did not affect the outcome of last 2 matches (already losing before the injury and won the other without him). Neither will he be able to participate for 3 months.
There’s never a good time to get injured but on the brighter note, the only big clubs we will be playing (apart from UCL) in the following 3 months are the two matches with Manchester duos. So in a way, we are quite lucky. He will be looking at coming back fresh at a very important stretch, when we play Tottenham, Liverpool, and Newcastle successively in late Feb – early March.
cant you only have 25 players on the uefa roster or less even
You cant add after September so my official guess is that.
We can all blame Wenger Wenger, Wenger but its probably Uefa out to get us yet again`
Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.
he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.
by bearcatcardfan on Dec 15, 2011 4:58 AM EST up reply actions
I believe there's an exception for players under 21 at the start of the season.
At least that’s what Football Manager always says.
Managing Editor, OnceAMetro.com
by Ben Schneider on Dec 15, 2011 7:01 AM EST up reply actions
I think everyone's positions are pretty well-established at this point
but one thing to remember: if Metro is to be believed, Wenger didn’t want Santos to start this match either—he wanted Angha to start. Why he then went to Santos, I don’t know, but he must’ve had a reason. We all love Wenger here, but even he can make strange decisions from time to time.
Truely, I'm far more worried about the depth behind RvP than our lack of outside backs.
We at least know we have outside backs once they are healthy, but if RvP goes down …
Alex Song - Krunk as Fuck!
Arsenal Report floated the idea of taking Torres on loan this winter:
http://www.arsenalreport.com/discussion/should-arsene-wenger-take-a-serious-look-at-fernando-torres/
I’d say it would be a pretty good idea if we could make it happen.
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by silverace99 on Dec 15, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
that would be sweet, but that's a lot of money in strikers when only one plays.
I guess you can’t have talent on the bench without paying for it though.
Alex Song - Krunk as Fuck!
by Midasknight on Dec 15, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
Chelsea would not loan him out
It makes no sense.
They’d be left with Lukaku as their only striker unless they buy someone (because Drogba and Kalou go to ACN). That new striker has to be acclimated into the team.
Furthermore, why would they let someone of Torres’ quality go to a rival?
AAARRRRRRRSSSSSHHHHHHHHAAAAAAVVVVVIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNN!
Dream goal!
by Aidan Gibson on Dec 15, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
Why did Liverpool let Torres go to Chelsea, a rival then? There's always reasons of various types.
plus it’s the winter transfer window. With the drop of Anelka and Torres not performing, I wouldn’t put past them at least window shopping for someone.
You’re also forgetting Sturridge.
And it’s pretty clear to me AVB doesn’t trust Torres’ quality anymore.
I’d say the chances of a loan happening would be quite low all in all, as is often the case. But I would not make it a definitive no. Torres is not untouchable, even more so if the Chelsea youngsters meet their potential (like sturridge).
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One has to wonder if Torres' form of late has anything to do with play time.
I don’t watch all the Chelsea games but I can only think of one where Torres started in the past couple of months.
Alex Song - Krunk as Fuck!
It's common sense, as in all the discussion about Santos above
Chelsea are not likely to loan Arsenal a player that will help them overtake Chelsea in the table. They might loan him out, or sell him outright, but I would be very, very surprised if that transaction were to include Arsenal.
Forgetting a certain player of Israeli origins I see
I feel that he has helped a good bit. Then again, he doesn’t get that much playing time.
That's the key
Chelsea probably didn’t figure Benayoun would come to N5 and discover some massive untapped vein of form, and they’re probably thinking Torres has that capacity.
Liverpool let Chelsea have Torres BECAUSE he sucks
It’s sabotage! Also, I don’t think anyone trusts Torres’ quality anymore.
Because
A) Chelsea were not a rival of Liverpool at the time
and
B) They got £50m for him.
AVB has said that he will not play Sturridge in the middle.
AAARRRRRRRSSSSSHHHHHHHHAAAAAAVVVVVIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNN!
Dream goal!
by Aidan Gibson on Dec 17, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
I volunteer to be the one who calls Chelsea and off them five dollars and sixty-two cents for Torres.
Captain, there are doubt''s...
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