Has Arsène Wenger gone too far?
By now, most Arsenal supporters and football fans have probably seen Arsène Wenger's remarks from his press conference this morning about the incidents during and after the UEFA Champions League match against Barcelona on Tuesday (press conference available to ATVO subscribers here). The Guardian has offered a summation of his remarks about the incident:
"Arsenal football club has been punished," Wenger said. "When you have a football game of that stature, you cannot come out with decisions like that and show a lot of arrogance on top of that. We can all understand that we can make wrong decisions but, after that, it becomes dictatorship. It's not common sense any more.
"A bit more humility would do Uefa some good. To apologise for what happened would be much better than to charge people who have done nothing wrong. Uefa has to have a little bit [of a] low profile after what happened. That would be better, more sensible and more adapted to the situation."
Wenger delivered these words in response to a question about the UEFA charges against him and Samir Nasri, and he spoke calmly about it. There is no doubt that he was perhaps unwise, however, to speak his mind so freely when the hearings have yet to take place. The fact that he used the word "dictatorship" in association with UEFA, even if he did not directly call them one (unlike what the headline implies), is probably not the shrewdest move the manager will ever make.
Many supporters have said that the red card against Robin van Persie destroyed the match, that Arsenal were both in the ascendancy and through to the next round when it occurred, and while that is factually true, the red card arguably didn't change the match as much as the earlier denial of a penalty kick to the Catalans did. Wenger is right to feel aggrieved about the call against van Persie, though; it was ridiculously pedantic and extremely unforgiving.
Wenger continued thusly:
"We are out of the Champions League, we have lost one of our big ambitions, we have been punished with a lot of damages and, on top of that, we have to say sorry to Uefa. We have done nothing wrong. They organised the competition, they named the referees who come to the games. It's not to me [they should apologise]. They do not punish me. It's Arsenal football club that has been punished."
He is also right to point out that UEFA's response to remarks he allegedly made to match official Massimo Busacca feel a bit petty-minded in light of the situation, and he also said that "I don't want to go public on that" when asked about remarks that Busacca allegedly made to him in the tunnel.
Wenger certainly knows that the current climate of officials coming under fire from all sides is, if not worse than ever, certainly extremely hyped at the moment, and that UEFA and FIFA are likely to come down heavily on any misstep towards an official. The manager has never been shy to express his opinion about controversial subjects within football, and this occasion has proven to be no exception, but perhaps a bit more realpolitik was necessary.
On the other hand, Wenger may be playing a long game, here, making his remarks now, knowing that matches he may miss as a result of a disciplinary ban would be in the early group stages. Perhaps he's hoping that his stance will cause UEFA to reconsider how they do things in the future (however unlikely that seems), and sees that move as worth missing two group stage matches over. Now that he has offered this, ahem, "critique" of UEFA's policy and politics, however, one wonders if they won't find a way to increase the punishment somehow.
While Wenger's remarks are just his opinion, and while he said them rationally and without anger, he may have shown a little imprudence on the occasion, despite being asked directly about the UEFA charge. Has he gone too far?
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This whole thing bugs me
because Wenger makes some great points, and as KC says UEFA/FIFA have a lot to answer for. However, Wenger – rightly or wrongly – has a reputation as being a “whiner” and as someone who can’t accept defeat with grace. This latest round of comments will make most people in England roll their eyes, tune him out and say “there he goes again” and that’s a shame, because in this case he has a point.
People will look at quotes like
“We are out of the Champions League, we have lost one of our big ambitions, we have been punished with a lot of damages and, on top of that, we have to say sorry to Uefa”
as him whining about being out of the Champions League, when in reality what he’s saying is that on top of losing, he’s expected to apologize for being angry at the situation that arguably brought about the loss. It’s a fine difference, but it’s a difference not a lot of people will pick up on.
There are times I wish Wenger would go the Sir Alex route and stop talking altogether – it’s no better, but at least it doesn’t give detractors much besides “he needs to talk what is he afraid of”.
He has no worse a reputation for speaking against perceived irregularities
Than Sir Alex does, IMO.
"I know you're from Middle America, and sometimes you feel like you're representing more than just a school or a conference, maybe an entire group of American citizens out there."
by Twin Cities Hawk on Mar 10, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
True, but he does have a reputation
which is why I’m afraid that this latest round will be chalked up to “Wenger being Wenger”.
Probably so
I’m used to the Arsenal hate in the media, so I guess while we can say it’s no different than what others do, he gets more criticism for his actions.
"I know you're from Middle America, and sometimes you feel like you're representing more than just a school or a conference, maybe an entire group of American citizens out there."
by Twin Cities Hawk on Mar 10, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
Sir Alex is Scottish
and so a hardman.
Arsene is French, so a whinger.
Squeezed to Song and Bendtner and Song and Nasri oh lovely lovely lovely!
-Peter Drury, the one time his commentating has ever been acceptable.
by Aidan Gibson on Mar 10, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I have no problem with his comments.
Will be interesting to see the fallout, though.
Hope he’s not writing the 2011 White Sox Anal too. -Sox Machine
Here's a different question: Does UEFA need Arsenal more than Arsenal needs UEFA?
Of course we could use the money but if any team can afford to not progress deep in the CL year after year it’s us. I think our second tier of players are probably good enough to to challenge for 2nd place in a group at least which would mean we’d do no worse than this year. More rest would mean our top guys would be more dangerous domestically and there are plenty of fans who would have no problem with us focusing on winning the league and the FA Cup year after year. Imagine the insult to UEFA if we didn’t send WS, Cesc, Wilshere, RVP!
If UEFA and the referees want to run this like a 2nd tier tournament then maybe that’s how we should treat it. Who exactly are we trying to please and what what exactly is to be gained by subjecting ourselves to this?
Captain, there are doubt's...
"It’s a good opportunity to show we have the strength to respond" - Arsene Wenger, 2011
by Match Day 5 on Mar 10, 2011 2:47 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
You know, you make a great point
Now, I’m sure that we won’t be of any attraction to potential transfer targets with that line of thinking. That we’re far and away the most functional “elite club” in Europe (and possibly the world) in the financial sense makes it easier to say this; the roots for the European “Super League” that has been bandied about over the past 10-15 years has its roots in the idea of complete separation of UEFA as a controlling organization.
One person who’s been willing to discuss the potential of this so-called “Super League?” Arsene Wenger.
"I know you're from Middle America, and sometimes you feel like you're representing more than just a school or a conference, maybe an entire group of American citizens out there."
by Twin Cities Hawk on Mar 10, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
As with all things European soccer, the answer to your question is "gobs of money".
I don’t like the Champions League. haven’t since they started letting in teams that, y’know, aren’t champions. There is absolutely no need for the group stages – but UEFA got a fat TV deal to do it. So they do it.
Like all other elite-level European teams, Arsenal budget with Champions League money in mind. If my math is right, based on this, Arsenal got €17,100,000 for their efforts in this season’s Champions League.
As much as I dislike the Champions League, it’s not going away at this point – and as much as I dislike the CL, I detest the idea of a “Super League” even more. A closed league, with all the same big teams playing each other twice a year, every year? That would get soooooo boring so fast. What European soccer doesn’t seem to want to understand is that scarcity creates value – if I watch Arsenal play Barcelona every year, with nothing at stake, in a couple years I get bored watching Arsenal play Barcelona. It’s not interesting if it’s the same damn thing every single year. A Super League would be a horrible idea.
tl;dr answer to your question: No. Uefa doesn’t need Arsenal. They just need a team to fill that spot, be it Arsenal, Celtic, Bayern, or whoever.
Unfortunately the premier league now has 5-6 teams that could theoretically take that spot in the coming years.
Thanks to the rise of Man City and the scum and the promise that Liverpool is showing. UEFA don’t need Arsenal unfortunately, that won’t stop them being worried about all the bad press that would come with any decisions against Arsenal though.
Hasn't bothered them so far!
As I said downthread, UEFA doesn’t give a damn. To care about bad press, you’d have to be accountable to somebody, and UEFA is not. It’s almost impossible to overstate how little UEFA cares about the opinions of the clubs it administers when it comes to things like this – if they hear something they don’t like, they do what they did to Arsenal today, fine and suspend. It will never prompt them to look inwards and say “hey maybe there’s a problem here” because they’re fat and rich and don’t care.
True enough. Unlike with clubs and players FIFA has no one to really answer to.
Hell to some extent they are above the government of countries they exist in. (Holding them for ransom if governments try to influence FA’s for example)
can I run for UEFA President?
Because I don’t want the job, and that makes me most qualified to do it.
They're not a UEFA country, sadly
Squeezed to Song and Bendtner and Song and Nasri oh lovely lovely lovely!
-Peter Drury, the one time his commentating has ever been acceptable.
by Aidan Gibson on Mar 10, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
My idea isn't that we wouldn't participate, it's that we wouldn't care.
I think we have a good enough 2nd team to contend in the group stages so we would still look to make 10 to 15mill depending on the payouts, more with a great performance or favorable draw. Any loss we would incur could be supplemented by more rewards for winning leagues and cups due a less exhausted and fitter team.
Right now, there is no way to respond to maltreament by UEFA or a referee. You can respond to an opponent with your tactics but there is nothing you can do against an official. Treating the CL like a league cup until they improve upon the issues Arsene raised would send a powerful message and perhaps even cost them money if advertisers, some of whom certainly care to be associated with fair and honest organizations, decide to side with us and reduce there contributions.
Captain, there are doubt's...
"It’s a good opportunity to show we have the strength to respond" - Arsene Wenger, 2011
That doesn't really send anybody a message though
I admire the egalitarian dream of an advertiser only wanting to be associated with “fair and honest organizations”, but in the real UEFA world, that doesn’t happen. It’s not a matter of “siding with us” – from the advertiser’s perspective, there is no side to be taken except the one they’ve already taken, the side of “we want to advertise in this competition”. They don’t care who is in it or who isn’t, or why a team falls out – they care about reaching eyeballs with their messages, and eyeballs are always on the CL no matter what.
Advertisers trip all over themselves to give UEFA fat piles of cash, and that won’t change if Arsenal decide to take a stand and start sending a B team to the CL. UEFA’s been corrupt forever, and they just keep raking in fatter and fatter piles of cash with every new TV deal they sign. As I said before, there’s almost no way to overstate how little they care – and advertisers are the same way.
As long as no Champions League team goes on a half time killing spree and guns down 300 people in a CL match crowd, there’s really nothing that happens as far as play or refereeing goes that makes a single bit of difference to an advertiser. All the advertiser wants to do is capture the market share of the soccer-watching demographic and sell them beer and snack food, and the CL will do that quite successfully with or without Arsenal in it.
I agree with what your saying but what other way is there to affect change?
“Whining” won’t do anything, rolling over and letting them have there way won’t do anything, waiting for new people to take over won’t do anything. How do you punish UEFA?
Captain, there are doubt's...
"It’s a good opportunity to show we have the strength to respond" - Arsene Wenger, 2011
That's my point. You don't.
They are unanswerable to anybody anywhere for anything. Short of leaving UEFA and starting one’s own confederation, there’s nothing that can be done to punish them because they are the absolute rulers of the game.
He'll be punished badly but if this means that UEFA will pay more attention to bad decisions in the future (against us at least, though hopefully overall) then it is for the best.
I have absolutely no problem with this. He isn’t SAF complaining about a player that should have been sent off he is complaining about a second yellow card that is practically universally accepted as being totally ridiculous.
I was hoping for this reaction from him and personally I more than trust Pat Rice to get us through any match bans he gets. This is making me appreciate Wenger all the more, rather have him than some sheep like Jez Moxey.
They answer to advertisers.
Captain, there are doubt's...
"It’s a good opportunity to show we have the strength to respond" - Arsene Wenger, 2011
I have a couple of things
1. I think Wenger is doing his classical “Let’s not blame the players” defence. While the red card did affect the game, we still might’ve lost anyway.
2. I also think it’s great someone has said this about UEFA. Team Arsene!
Squeezed to Song and Bendtner and Song and Nasri oh lovely lovely lovely!
-Peter Drury, the one time his commentating has ever been acceptable.

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