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The Great Debate: Is it time for Arsene Wenger to leave Arsenal?

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Imploding collapses. Another trophyless season. Frustrated fans, and players. Those are the facts of the end of this season for Arsenal, and could describe quite a few others, including last year and 2007/08. The failure of Arsenal to land that elusive trophy and win with a young and developing team have lead many in the media to question whether it is time for Arsene Wenger to go. Many other fans discuss how Wenger was able to keep the club in the Champions League places despite not having a large transfer budget after the move to the Emirates Stadium, and that his record at Arsenal means he deserves to be given a chance. Both sides have valid points and irrational points, which is why instead of drawing any conclusions, this article will instead evaluate the failures of Arsene Wenger but also the positive side of his management at Arsenal.

Star-divide

Arsenal may be 16 games unbeaten, but with 8 of those games draws, they have most likely thrown their title hopes away. Recently, the team has looked exhausted and part of that has to do with the state of the squad. Players like Alex Song, Jack Wilshere, Laurent Koscielny and Samir Nasri cannot be rotated because Tomas Rosicky, Denilson, Sebastien Squillaci and Nicklas Bendtner have been unreliable. That may end up to be one of the key differences between Arsenal and Manchester United; their players are relatively fresh because of the better balanced squad at Manchester United, while at Arsenal, playing constantly has taken its toll. With the amount of injuries Arsenal have, it seems foolish that the backup squad players are so poor, and that is something that must be changed by Arsene Wenger.

Wenger also has a deficiency in the tactical side of the game and the defensive side. With regard to tactics, he is very stubborn, and often refuses to make changes to the game plan or system in order to make the play better. For example, in the recent draws, Nicklas Bendtner has been deployed as a right winger. In a game against teams sitting deep, where the Arsenal players are continually turning to crossing the ball, surely putting the Dane with Robin van Persie in a 4-4-2 or even a 3-5-2 would make sense. Instead, Wenger is usually very slow to make tactical changes, with the 2-2 comeback against WBA the exception, not the rule.

Arsenal's defending sometimes gets an undeseverd bad rep in the press, but there are some structural problems with it. This doesn't just have to do with the defenders, but also has to do with the entire team. Recently, Arsenal's pressing has been less intense, and as a result, teams have found it easier to play through Arsenal, as Tottenham did last Wednesday. The perfecting of a pressing system would go a long way in helping Arsenal concede less goals, as, with the emergence of Johan Djourou, they've become less susceptible to high balls in the air. However, when Arsenal drop deep, as they did against Barcelona, as they did against Tottenham and as they did in the 4-4 draw against Newcastle, they invariably concede goals and this suggests that the pressing game was a major factor in Arsenal's excellent run from December to February. If a coach was to come in and work on the team's pressing game and organising the team's defensive positioning from back to front, it would most likely lead to a reduction in the number of goals Arsenal concede.

We must however, remember that this is a manager that lead the only unbeaten team in England over the last 120 years. He's won the Double 2 times, the FA Cup another 2 times after that, and he got Arsenal to the final of the Champions League. He modernized the club, and brought it out of the doldrums that George Graham had brought it into. He's made some great signings in the transfer market, and he's managed to keep the team in the Champions League despite having very little money. With that record, he does deserve another chance at the title. However, Liverpool, Tottenham and Manchester City will all improve next year, as will the other title contenders this year, Manchester United and Chelsea, who will surely fit Fernando Torres in next year. Arsenal too must strengthen. Players like Tomas Rosicky, Denilson and Nicklas Bendtner should depart for better squad players, who can come in and effectively replace missing starters. A better tactician as the number 2, and a coach who is adept at organizing defensive play (Steve Bould?) should also be brought in.

If Arsene Wenger does not make these improvements, and Arsenal fail to win the title, or even miss out on the Champions League (which economically would be disastrous, because the club is dependent on Champions League money as shareholders don't make investments), then his position at the club, already tenuous, would surely become  untenable. But perhaps the biggest question is who would replace him?

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Interesting...

After the Spurs game I experienced this strange sensation that AW would leave after this season. I appreciate the objective outlook above, as mine is much more of a gut reaction. I didn’t know if there would be an appropriate place to share this sentiment on this blog, but sure enough here it is.

I can’t say for sure that it would be a good thing for the club, but perhaps now is as good as time as any… With the new ownership and the stable financial position of the club, maybe it’s time for a change. Can’t believe I’m even typing that, but his reactions on the sideline, along with his appearance, only convey to me a state of discontent and frustration as the season drags on. It must be hard for Arsene, holding an eternal belief in a particular method or philosophy, without validation of that system in the form of trophies. How much of a toll has this taken on him? Another season of the same old story… so close, and we just can’t do enough to secure a trophy. Can he bounce back next year and really think he will just find a few Ligue 1 players to fill the gaps to put us over the top? I don’t know, but it must be hard to dream that dream for so long to no avail.

All opinions and feelings I’m spilling here…. like I’m at an Arsenal Addicts therapy session.

by bahns on Apr 22, 2011 10:24 AM EDT reply actions  

No.

Captain, there are doubt's...

"It’s a good opportunity to show we have the strength to respond" - Arsene Wenger, 2011

by Match Day 5 on Apr 22, 2011 10:40 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Trophies are not the end all be all of a club's existence

I would love it if Arsenal would win a trophy, sure, but the fact that they don’t is not enough of a reason to get rid of Wenger. I am firmly in the camp of “he leaves when he says he leaves and no sooner” – the man pretty much revolutionized English soccer as a whole, not just Arsenal. He took a team that was famous for its drinking culture and turned it into one of the fittest teams in the country, completely changing both dietary and training habits, and the rest of the Premier League had no choice but to follow suit.

This by no means makes Wenger bulletproof. He clearly has a team that needs reinforcing, and the fact that he either refuses to see it or sees it and refuses to address it is a problem. If I were the Arsenal board, I would sit Arsene down this summer and say “You are still the manager and we have faith in you, but here’s an assistant manager” and make him understand that this is the way it is now, that there will be a #2 at the club to provide a different perspective. Arsene’s vision got Arsenal this far, but his vision is increasingly tunneled – he can’t see what’s going wrong, and he needs someone next to him on the bench that can.

Whether that someone is a coach who questions and develops new tactics or suggests players to buy to fit the current scheme, I’m convinced that a second perspective is what Wenger needs – he’s so completely wedded to his vision of how the game SHOULD be played that he’s losing touch with how it IS being played.

Do not fire Wenger this summer. Give him a strong assistant coach, and one more year – and if things don’t improve, then buy him out and send him on his way.

by pdb on Apr 22, 2011 11:03 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I'm very much with you that Wenger did wonders for changing the culture of Arsenal

I don’t really know that he brought them anywhere though, the club had a pretty good tradition of winning prior to his arrival anyway. If anything, I think taking Wenger away from the pitch and letting him simply run the club would make him far more effective at what he does.

by Stephen Schmidt on Apr 26, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the responses guys

It is an interesting debate— as pdb said above, it’s not all about winning trophies, and Wenger has revolutionised the club. But there comes a point where we have to win a trophy, otherwise some players may leave, and we might not be able to attract a top quality player.
I think Wenger can do it with his team, but I think he does need to be told to strengthen the team, and I think that’s where we miss the influence of David Dein (kicked off the board, ironically, for trying to bring in Stan Kroenke)

Squeezed to Song and Bendtner and Song and Nasri oh lovely lovely lovely!
-Peter Drury, the one time his commentating has ever been acceptable.

by Aidan Gibson on Apr 22, 2011 3:40 PM EDT reply actions  

I think it's important to remember, too,

that Wenger watches more football than anyone on earth. I don’t think he has tunnel vision, necessarily, but I think he’s painted himself into a corner. He doesn’t really have the personnel or the training time in to be able to get this group playing a different way than they know, and I think the drops in form that Denilson and Rosicky in particular have experienced caught him unprepared.

I think he also painted himself into a corner by committing as vocally as he did to the current system of small changes to a young, young squad; if he had turned too quickly on his players, he would have not only lost their trust in him, but possibly the supporters as well. The time may have finally arrived this summer when both groups won’t be blindsided by larger-scale changes, and I think it will be telling to see what kind of transfer moves he makes.

As for right now, though, if we win our remaining five matches, we can still win this darn thing. I hope the home support is a little more into singing than booing (as they did against Liverpool) for our remaining matches, and I hope that Wenger properly lights a fire under our guys’ asses for a strong finish.

by Ted Harwood on Apr 22, 2011 4:35 PM EDT reply actions  

This will be a crucial summer for Arsenal, for sure

For the last four summers it’s been major sell, minor buy. With the possible exception of Fabregas, this summer will hopefully tilt towards the other side of the spectrum and see some players come in.

I just hope Wenger’s stubbornness doesn’t preclude even thinking about improving the squad, which is why I hope for a strong assistant or other voice.

by pdb on Apr 22, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

there were times this past summer

where he seemed to say that this was the year that his experiment would start to show results of some kind. I think he himself may be ready to start making some changes, but who knows.

by Ted Harwood on Apr 22, 2011 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, he wasn't wrong

They are showing results. Just not the results he wants.

by pdb on Apr 22, 2011 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, not "football" results like wins

but results, like a scientific experiment

should’ve been more clear, sorry

by Ted Harwood on Apr 22, 2011 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

this is where European sports are a bit strange for me as an American

why is 6 years such a ridiculous drought? The only team in the states that starts freaking out when they haven’t won anything in a couple years is the yankees and everyone hates them for that sense of entitlement.

by rg643 on Apr 22, 2011 5:57 PM EDT reply actions  

It's no different, really

Arsenal, Man Utd, Liverpool and Chelsea are arguably the most successful teams in Division 1/Premier League history, much like the stupid Yankees are in MLB. That carries with it a certain expectation, as it does with the Yankees, that winning is the way of things and not a pleasant exception. As I said above, I’m not convinced that the annual accumulation of shiny tin pots is the only way to measure success, but for an increasingly lazy and need-to-get-headlines-centric media, it’s an easy storyline to say ZOMG ARSENAL HAVEN’T WON ANYTHING WHAT’S WRONG WITH ARSENAL.

I think if you look around the Premier League fanbases you will find no small segment of fans that delight in Arsenal’s trophyless streak, much as I love it when the Yankees don’t win.

by pdb on Apr 22, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

There are a couple of reasons

1. In the Sky Four era, football is a lot less egalitarian than American sports. Since the Premier League started, 4 teams have won the league. If you take out Blackburn’s win, 3 teams have shared the title over 18 years.
2. There are 4 chances to win a trophy

Squeezed to Song and Bendtner and Song and Nasri oh lovely lovely lovely!
-Peter Drury, the one time his commentating has ever been acceptable.

by Aidan Gibson on Apr 22, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dammit I took too long! Brevity thou dost evade me!

by jiduthie on Apr 22, 2011 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

yours was much more in depth

Squeezed to Song and Bendtner and Song and Nasri oh lovely lovely lovely!
-Peter Drury, the one time his commentating has ever been acceptable.

by Aidan Gibson on Apr 22, 2011 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

First, because winning the league isn’t the only thing a squad can accomplish in a given year. This year, Arsenal had a shot at the FA Cup, League Cup, Premier League title and Champions League title. More trophies to win means less sympathy for not having won anything in a given span of time.

Second, American sports often have a notion of “parity” and mechanisms in place to support that notion. Salary caps, drafts, and revenue sharing all have a tendency to make teams’ ability more equal and make it harder for any one team to dominate year in and year out. The Chicago Blackhawks this year are a great example of a team that was gutted in order to comply with salary cap issues. While the Premier League does share TV Revenue, they largely don’t have “parity” mechanisms in place. Since its founding, only four different clubs have won the Premier League, one of them being Blackburn Rovers who’ve only won it once and another, Man U, winning it more often than not. Thus the expectation that the top clubs, Arsenal being one, win things with regularity.

by jiduthie on Apr 22, 2011 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

European soccer in general is a perfect example of capitalism in action

It’s quite interesting to me that in a capitalist country like the US, sports are decidedly socialist in nature – “parity” being key to most leagues and revenue sharing being the main vehicle for achieving said parity – while in notoriously “socialist” Europe, you buy your way to victory.

by pdb on Apr 22, 2011 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

One of the reasons I love British sport, at least compared to its North American counterpart, is its sense of tradition and history. The Ashes is essentially a 130 year grudge match that was perpetuated because some satirist managed a wry turn of phrase. We simply don’t have anything comparable here.

In fact I’m inclined to view the evolution of Assoc Football in nearly opposite terms. The British, at least at one time, had a strong inclination toward amateurism in sport and clubs sprung up as a representative of your community. The original matches were between villages and even as leagues developed, clubs were never simply a part of an all-encompassing league. They were their own entity and they might play in any competition they might qualify for. Therefore, league’s never held much sway over individual clubs, and any idea towards restricting the ways in which a club could sign player’s would be laughed off as ridiculous.

In the States in contrast, professional leagues arose as business ventures after seeing the popularity of collegiate sport, which to this day resembles British sport more than American – with a number of different leagues, smaller competitions which award trophies and are steeped in tradition in history. So because these professional leagues were business entities first, and their history and connection to a given community much more tenuous, then it was completely rational to enforce parity when it became to be seen as healthy to the business as a whole.

by jiduthie on Apr 22, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

well said

Captain, there are doubt's...

"It’s a good opportunity to show we have the strength to respond" - Arsene Wenger, 2011

by Match Day 5 on Apr 22, 2011 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

The college comparison is most apt, and one I've made to people before

There are several programs (depending on the sport) where their success is measured in “trophies” (conference titles, bowl games, tournament wins, national titles). Several years without some of those things creates a series of “what’s wrong with them?” questions in very much the same way

Beyond that, though, comparing the American to European sports landscapes is difficult, as Europe doesn’t deal with the same College/Professional divide, to say nothing of the relative monopoly held by soccer in Europe. Local identity with college athletics is quite strong the South (Alabama), but the attachment is more professional in, say, the Northeast (Boston). It’s an interesting comparison, but filled with caveats and gray areas

by Dr. Copp on Apr 23, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

When you consider that American teams are competing for a single title versus Premier League teams looking at four trophies it looks worse.

That’s actually 25 straight competitions Arsenal has entered without winning. Many non-Yankee franchises would freak out at that type of spell.

by Stephen Schmidt on Apr 26, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I want Wenger to stay as long as he wants

For as much as he has brought to this club, the very least the club can do is to allow him to leave on his own terms. The success he has bred in the club has also been a double edged sword. The success in the early to mid 2000s has turned Gooners to become greedy. The growth in fans from that success has caused a group of fans that don’t remember what this team was like before Wenger. Those are the fans that are the main complainers now and many of those bandwagon fans will leave, and that’s perfectly fine by me. Yes, it can be frustrating at times, but without Wenger we would not have the titles and silverware we have now. I doubt it would be even close. He is respectful to everyone including the rowdy press which try to wind him up. He protects his players as much as he can even to the point of outright lies(I didn’t see it).

It’s my firm belief that if Wenger leaves this summer, Arsenal would either A) become less financially sound or B) drop out of the Champions League spots in 2 seasons. If you go look back and see how much success Wenger has had from spending a relatively small amount of money on players. The other top 6 teams have outspent Arsenal by quite a margin and yet Wenger still has us in the Champions League and right in the thick of the title race and Cup competitions. Sure we haven’t won a piece of silverware in the past few years, but it’s not like we haven’t come close. A bit of luck and we could have had won those, but it just didn’t go our way. I would be much more upset if we weren’t coming close but we are coming close. The fact that he wouldn’t come out and say it, but the building of Ashburton Grove has affected his ability to spend money on players. Not many managers would be able to cope with the knowledge that they are being put on a restricted budget, and still come close to the wildly high expectations of the fanbase.

Wenger does have his faults of course. He is notoriously stubborn. He will not budge on spending over a certain amount for a player. I think at one point he said he would never spend 25m on a player, the economics graduate coming through a bit too often when it comes to the team. I think he tries to be too much of a micro-manager, spreading himself too thin around the club. Like pdb, I think a new assistant coach would help especially someone who Wenger trusts to do a good job when he just can’t be there for training or whatever. I hear Pat Rice is probably going to retire after the season, so this will happen to some degree this next year.

There is a reason why only the great Herbert Chapman and Arsene Wenger have bronze statues at Ashburton Grove. We should respect Wenger as long as he stays at the club. Getting rid of Wenger just because we haven’t won a trophy in a few years would be a mistake that would take a very long time for this club to recover from.

Here is an audio clip from the Arsenal Podcast “Footballistically Arsenal” that makes the case for Wenger.

by Scrupio on Apr 22, 2011 7:23 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Pat Rice

Couple of things again.

1. I’m not sure it’s fair to say we need a new/better #2 or a “better tactician” than Pat Rice is – how do we know he isn’t an apt assistant manager? Or do you mean that we need less of a “yes man” at the club?

2. Harsh to say Bendtner should be moved on – he’s scored a lot of important goals for Arsenal and has been unlucky in that he’s played on the RW where he’s obviously not going to excel.

www.arsenalreport.com - Arsenal tactics, chalkboards and much more.

by Joss Bennett on Apr 23, 2011 7:31 AM EDT reply actions  

I think we need someone

That’ll tell Wenger when to change things (system, style). I don’t think Pat Rice does this because we don’t see this change.

2. I might’ve had this discussion with you or maybe the BackwardsGooner on twitter-Yes Bendtner gets important goals for Arsenal, but overall he takes away from the team’s play because his link up play isn’t as good as Chamakh’s and van Persie’s, which I think is why we saw Cesc pushed up last year, while he prefers to play deeper

Squeezed to Song and Bendtner and Song and Nasri oh lovely lovely lovely!
-Peter Drury, the one time his commentating has ever been acceptable.

by Aidan Gibson on Apr 23, 2011 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pat Rice is leaving Arsenal at the end of this season so he needs to be replaced

and that replacement should be able to have some influence with Wenger.

by pdb on Apr 24, 2011 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Replacing Wenger only makes sense

if you have someone else in mind. As Lincoln said of Union generals, “You may ask for anyone, but I must have someone”. Otherwise, the team has been consistently successful even during this drought, Top 4 in the League, Champions League 2nd Round if not further, FA and League Cup runs. Unless you think there’s someone out there who could come in, not make wholesale changes to the structure and style and at least maintain that success while laying the foundation for future advances, Wenger has more than earned his long-term spot on the sidelines

Maybe Kroenke’s presence/money (mostly $$$) allows or prods Wenger into adding pieces…

by Dr. Copp on Apr 23, 2011 3:19 PM EDT reply actions  

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