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On booing and being a fan

Mike Dean doesn't get it either

I don't know if you heard or not, but Arsenal lost yesterday. I know! Third loss in a row! Crazy, right? Anyway, there were a number of things that came out of that game, and are coming out now that Arsenal have lost three games in a row, that are interesting and warrant further discussion, and here I am to tackle one of them. Sorry, boys and girls - detailed discussion of Wenger's substitution patterns will have to wait for another post. Today, I want to talk about booing.

Star-divide

As we all heard yesterday, in the 72nd (ish?) minute, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (and seriously, why he doesn't have OXLADE on his back over his number and CHAMBERLAIN below it, forming a Circle Of Awesome Name, I have no idea) was substituted for Andrei Arshavin. Reaction to this at my house was a head-scratching WTF (I had to be quiet as my wife was still asleep), but reaction at the Emirates was, shall we say, a little more spirited. There was applause for young master Oxlade-Chamberlain at first, but when Arshavintook the pitch, the boos started - both for removing Alex and for inserting Andrei, and by extension, for Wenger for calling for the sub in the first place.

Arsenal also got booed off the pitch at half time, and despite playing much better in the second half, got booed off at full time as well. Fans are frustrated right now; we all see what's going on at Arsenal, and we all see that precious 4th place finish becoming ever slipperier, ever more elusive. That's irritating, andfans are making their displeasure known rather vocally, both at the Emirates and on the internet.

Booing is a divisive, controversial topic, not just in the Arsenal fan sphere, but in all sports. There are many people who feel like they paid their money, they follow the team, and they have the right to make their displeasure as well known as their pleasure. There are many others who feel like booing is counterproductive, that it insults the team and the work the team has put in, and that people should get behind the team no matter what because only positivity will help the team play better and/or win.

As with all things, though, there is both not a right answer and a lot of gray area.

I, like a lot of Arsenal fans, am incredibly frustrated with Arsene Wenger right now. Not overall, but for his continued reliance on Arshavin when Arshavin has repeatedly shown he is Gilles Grimandi not up to the task at hand. And Wenger's hands are somewhat tied right now through injury and pointless Cup competition absences, but still. What I would like to see from Wenger is less "I have made 50,000 substitutions and I know what I'm doing so shut up" and more willingness to depart from a formula that works great in his head but not so much out on the pitch.

Would I boo him, or Arshavin, were I at the Emirates? No, I wouldn't. I would swear a lot, and I might let loose a "YOU SUCK ANDREI" or something, but I'm not a booer. I understand people that do, though - this is a frustrating team right now, anda frustrating time to be a fan if you believe that the Champions League is the only goal worth pursuing (the title hasn't been an option since October, really). I think it's a bit premature to be booing this particular team off the pitch, though; there are teams and fan bases who would love to be in Arsenal's position, and on the face of it finishing fifth or sixth isn't the end of the world. But I do understand it.

I'm not one of those people who get all woolly and romantic about "our boys". I am a fan, but I'm not nearly as invested in sports-as-life as I was when I was younger, so I'm not the kind of person who will cheer no matter what - I honestly don't think it makes a huge difference to the players. I think it's nicer and more fun to cheer than to boo, but I have never bought in to the theory that a crowd can change a game; most of the time, players are so focused on what they're trying to do that they tune out what is going on in the stands, unless it's personally directed at them while they're taking a corner or a throw or something. But by and large, fans vastly overstate their influence on game play - that's their right, they're emotionally invested, but I'm not sure it's accurate.

Back to the Emirates on Sunday, then. Was the crowd right to boo? As I said above, I think it's pretty premature to boo Arsenal off the pitch at this point. Three straight losses is bad, but it's not like Arsenal are relegation candidates or anything, so to me that was a pretty extreme reaction to a dip in form that will right itself soon enough. The Arshavin thing, however, that's a bit different.

Andrei Arshavin is not good. We all know this. He has demonstrated this many, many times. And yet, for some reason, Wenger keeps running him out there and he keeps making mistakes and looking disinterested and just generally wasting a roster spot. This has been a thing for months now, and yet Sunday morning, there's Andrey getting ready to come on for Ox, who was having a great game. Cue the boos. Cue van Persie mouthing NO at the substitution. Cue angst.

There was some word that Ox may have been cramping up, but in the absence of specific information or an explanation, all we know for a fact is that Ox went off for a vastly inferior option, and that's what set people off. And it wasn't just this one Arshavin sub, either - this was the latest in a long line, and seemingly everybody but Wenger knew it would not end well. That's why people were booing, and that booing I fully andcompletely understand.

What about you? Would you boo if you were there? Have you booed at a sporting event? What's your stance?

Poll
Is booing a valid response when you're at a game?
Absolutely. I paid my money, these guys have to know how I feel
25 votes
Sometimes. When things are really bad, it's OK
42 votes
Nope, I'll just stay quiet
5 votes
Never. Be a positive force from the stands.
22 votes
I was saying "Boo-urns"
15 votes

109 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 65 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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I was definitely saying Boo-urns.

For me it’s a shame if anyone was doing otherwise, but they’ve paid the price of the ticket and I guess it’s their right to express themselves however they wish. It just smacks of pompous, bratty behavior, and I would never be caught dead doing it no matter how bad things get (speaking as a longtime Chicago Fire STH who managed to somehow not boo at all the first half of the 2011 season…)

What speaks louder than booing? Don’t buy a ticket . Enough of you do that and your discontent will be heard loud and clear.

by bahns on Jan 23, 2012 2:17 PM EST reply actions  

You nailed it

Don’t buy a ticket . Enough of you do that and your discontent will be heard loud and clear.

More people need to take this to heart – but those people kinda need to be the ones that would be buying the ticket if it weren’t already sold. The problem with popular sports and teams is that, well, they’re popular – for every seat at the Emirates, there’s probably 100 people that want that seat. So if the current seatholder decides to vote with his wallet, it’s not like it’ll sit empty. Once it does, that’s when changes can happen.

by pdb on Jan 23, 2012 2:20 PM EST up reply actions  

You can boo the other team

You can (and should) boo Na$ri. But booing the team that you have paid to watch is disrespectful to yourself and to the players. You paid money to go and be entertained, and now you are booing? Is your judgement that bad? If you go to a bad movie, you don’t start booing half way through. You don’t even try and get a refund. If you do try, you are an idiot. No, if you don’t like something, don’t spend your money.

by Adnan Ilyas on Jan 23, 2012 2:21 PM EST reply actions  

I'm in this camp

You boo your opponent almost always, you boo the refs when they get the call wrong. However, you go to support your team: “Come on, Andrei!!”, etc.

Captain, there are doubt''s...

by Match Day 5 on Jan 23, 2012 7:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I only boo the other team (or the referee)

We even have a few referee songs at Sporting KC which I love. They probably aren’t unique but I don’t care.

Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.

he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.

by bearcatcardfan on Jan 23, 2012 2:26 PM EST reply actions  

I'M BLIND, I'M DEAF, I WANNA BE A REF

The Timbers Army had to actually tone down their ref songs for MLS because they were all obscene.

by pdb on Jan 23, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

My general favorite is

(whatever color shirt the ref is wearing) team sucks.

Chuck Norris doesn't need a bat.

he just roundhouse kicks the ball out of the park.

by bearcatcardfan on Jan 23, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

really? Here in colorado we haven't had to tone it down.

Yellow Team Sucks, Yellow Team Sucks, Yellow Team Sucks….

Who’s your father,
who’s your father,
who’s your faaaather referee?
You ain’t got one never had one
you’re a bastard referee.

SBN Bloglist:
The Short Fuse (Arsenal, EPL)
Sactown Royalty (Kings, NBA)

by silverace99 on Jan 23, 2012 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

When I say obscene I mean F-bombs galore

the Timbers asked the Army to remove all chants with swears in them because now more people than just the TA go to games.

by pdb on Jan 23, 2012 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

booing is pretty mindless and silly but its bound to happen once in a while.

This team will be the death of me.

by NYflyGUY on Jan 23, 2012 2:48 PM EST reply actions  

the booing was understandable but not productive.

What’s the point of destroying Arshavin’s confidence before he even plays?

SBN Bloglist:
The Short Fuse (Arsenal, EPL)
Sactown Royalty (Kings, NBA)

by silverace99 on Jan 23, 2012 2:48 PM EST reply actions  

I don't think booing your team is appropriate

I don’t understand what people who boo expect to gain. As if the team are performing badly and don’t know it and the booing will galvanize them in some way. Fans usually boo opposition players to put them off their game. I expect that doing the same to our players wouldn’t benefit them.

Just like the team is expected to perform and entertain, the fans are expected to cheer the team, that’s why stadiums have seats in them right. Atmosphere is an important part of the experience for everyone not just the people in the stands. Who wants to perform in front of a group of people who are going to turn against you if things aren’t going well.

Whether they were booing Arshavin or the decision to take the Ox it sends the wrong message to the player coming on. If a player is being introduced to a chorus of boos he knows he doesn’t have the support of the fans and that they don’t have confidence in him. What are we to expect from that player? How many Eboue Situations are we going to have before people realize how unhelpful it is?

We as fans can be frustrated with a lackluster performance or a bad decision but in the stadium isn’t the best place to express it. “Boo” doesn’t articulate a point in any truly meaningful or constructive way so why do it?

by Sabrina Dessipe on Jan 23, 2012 3:17 PM EST reply actions  

If you were inclined to boo your own team (which, as I said above, I'm not)

I think what you want to happen is to have a Tony Adams or even an Arsene Wenger yelling at the team in the locker room: “Listen to them, they’re booing us!! Get your heads out of your arses and go win this game!” I don’t think Arsene is going to ever, nor SHOULD he ever, question himself based on what the drunken masses think. He’s smart enough to know that Arshavin’s on the decline, but he also knows that we are committed. The fans need to recognize this. It may not be the best situation but it’s the best we’ve got.

Captain, there are doubt''s...

by Match Day 5 on Jan 23, 2012 7:50 PM EST up reply actions  

You couldn't live in Philadelphia.

SBN Bloglist:
The Short Fuse (Arsenal, EPL)
Sactown Royalty (Kings, NBA)

by silverace99 on Jan 23, 2012 7:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Reminds me of the time, maybe 20 yrs ago,

the Cincinnati Bengals fans were getting out of control and Sam Wyche got on the PA and said something like, “Hey, cut it out. This isn’t Cleveland!!”

Captain, there are doubt''s...

by Match Day 5 on Jan 23, 2012 9:28 PM EST up reply actions  

People certainly have the right to boo

after all, Britain is a free nation. Doesn’t mean the people who do it aren’t assholes, though.

WRITTEN IN THE STAAAAARS, A MILLION MILES AWAAAAAAY

I write about the Arsenal for The Short Fuse.

Twitter: Brohan_Cruyff

by Thomas Wachtel on Jan 23, 2012 3:22 PM EST reply actions  

I find all the internet hissyfits on booing to be quite bizarre

As a New Yorker, we boo things we don’t like. Thats just how its done. The idea that fragile wittle Andrey Arshavin, captain of the Russian national team, paid millions upon millions of dollars to play soccer is going to put out a poor effort because some schmucks in the seats were booing gets my blood boiling. If that really is his level of “mental strength” then I want him out of this squad straightaway. Professionals, especially veterans, need to be above that.

by GiantGooner on Jan 23, 2012 8:48 PM EST reply actions  

Counterpoint

Do you boo your boss at work when he makes a bad decision?
Do you boo your wife/girlfriend/significant other when they make an illegal right on red?
Do you boo your mailman when all he brings you is junk mail?
Did you boo when you read this thread?

If the answers to any of those questions are no, why do you boo at a sporting event? And don’t even bring money into this. It’s irrelevant. It’s not about the players and their fragility. It’s about the fans, and doing things that count (not showing up) instead of things that are stupid (booing).

by pdb on Jan 23, 2012 9:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Alternatively counterpoint

If you think they are doing something wrong, get down there and do it better

by Adnan Ilyas on Jan 23, 2012 10:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I see your point

but i don’t think Arshavin was, like, “Meh, I’m not really gonna try today.” I think he was working hard and I think he’s been working hard all season. He’s just not good enough right now. That doesn’t warrant a boo from me.

Captain, there are doubt''s...

by Match Day 5 on Jan 23, 2012 9:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree. It's not that he didn't try.

But Arshavin should have never been in the position he was put in by Wenger. Considering his form as of, say the past year, he should not see the pitch.

by docjay0 on Jan 23, 2012 10:20 PM EST up reply actions  

But, as has been discussed at great length everywhere, it's not that easy.

He was purchased for and is being paid a lot of money to do a job. It’s not like he’s 40. He shouldn’t be this bad especially considering that, at least IMO, he was decent last year. Not great but certainly good relative to the teams overall quality.

it’s the same with Chamakh: they have the ability, Arsene is giving them the opportunity. Neither of them have an excuse to be as poor as they have been.

Captain, there are doubt''s...

by Match Day 5 on Jan 24, 2012 12:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Even if that's the case (and they have been pretty poor),

(and this isn’t directed at you, MD5), I think the people booing (and I said this on the podcast, too) need to consider all of the possible consequences of their petulant, whiny behavior (so that’s how I feel about it, clearly, then). These could be:

1. The players get pumped and motivated by it,
2. The players get demoralized and drop off.

Given the past five years of this club’s on-pitch results and behaviors, which result seems more likely? Anyone with half a brain should realize that this squad simply does not respond well to booing. It hasn’t worked. So anyone booing players or decisions or whatever during a match is probably actively contributing to the performance actually getting worse.

They boo, the team suffers, and then they have the fucking gall to ask why the players aren’t trying harder? It’s such a stupid cycle.

I know that I get pretty cranky on here and on twitter when players make mistakes or underperform, but I’m not in the stadium where there’s an immediacy that changes the outcomes of negative vibe-age.

by Ted Harwood on Jan 24, 2012 10:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Arshavin should be better...

I guess, what I want to ask is at what point do you cut your losses? He is getting paid a lot of money to perform, but he is beginning to be a liability on the pitch. Sometimes you win with player you sign, sometimes you go bust. The goal is to win, not to stroke fragile egos. If he doesn’t improve soon, then he needs to go. When you buy players, you take a risk. Sometimes the risk is realized, sometimes it’s not. At the point, in my humble opinion, a financial loss on the deal is better than a loss on the pitch. And don’t get me wrong, personality-wise, I think he was a pretty stand up guy and a good teammate. At some point, you just have to perform.

by docjay0 on Jan 24, 2012 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with all this

I think it was pretty significant (about as significant as AW gets actually) that he didn’t start. But you still have to concede that we are pretty short right now for many reasons. Wenger made another bold move to take out JD and put on Yennaris. That one turned out great but, because AA couldn’t stop Valencia, everyone piles on AW. i think that’s a little unfair.

Captain, there are doubt''s...

by Match Day 5 on Jan 24, 2012 6:27 PM EST up reply actions  

people didn't start to pile on AW because of the Valencia goal (although that was part of the pile later on)

They started to pile on him for two reasons:

1) They might not have known Ox was too tired to continue
2) Arshavin, in his current disastrous form, was not the right substitution choice for the tactical situation by a mile.

SBN Bloglist:
The Short Fuse (Arsenal, EPL)
Sactown Royalty (Kings, NBA)

by silverace99 on Jan 25, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

what's unfair?

I think booing Arshavin was unfair. I don’t think criticizing Wenger for making such a bad mistake in such a big game was unfair.

SBN Bloglist:
The Short Fuse (Arsenal, EPL)
Sactown Royalty (Kings, NBA)

by silverace99 on Jan 26, 2012 12:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Cause at the end of the day

Arshavin has a job to do.

Captain, there are doubt''s...

by Match Day 5 on Jan 26, 2012 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

are you perhaps talking about the booing rather than the criticism?

Because while I feel the criticism is perfectly fine, I’m still against the booing that took place.

SBN Bloglist:
The Short Fuse (Arsenal, EPL)
Sactown Royalty (Kings, NBA)

by silverace99 on Jan 26, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

As a Mets fan

it made me want to lay waste to the stadium when Oliver Perez got booed. There’s this myth that being from New York or Boston or Philadelphia makes it okay to emotionally ravage a player, and if they can’t keep from totally falling apart then “HE’S JUST NAWT GOOD ENOUGH FOAAAH NEW YAWK! (BAHHHHHHHSTUN! PHILLAYYYYYYY!)” when what it really means is that they’re humans who perform badly when the people in the world who should be supporting them with the most fervor instead decide to ruin them. London shouldn’t become that.

It has nothing to do with money. It has nothing to do with mental strength. It’s just people being douchebags.

WRITTEN IN THE STAAAAARS, A MILLION MILES AWAAAAAAY

I write about the Arsenal for The Short Fuse.

Twitter: Brohan_Cruyff

by Thomas Wachtel on Jan 24, 2012 11:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Here is my theory

Booing opposing teams – Fine
Booing refs – Encouraged
Booing the team after a no effort performance – Okay
Booing the team during a game – No way
Booing individual players – Never

Booing for me really comes down to effort. During the game, booing does no good. Fans should try to support their team as much as they can during a game to help them get a boost. After the game is over is the only time booing should be okay, but only if your team didn’t put out a decent effort. And booing individual players is just cruel.

by Scrupio on Jan 23, 2012 9:25 PM EST reply actions  

Pulling a Blackburn

A team is like a marriage except you cant change teams like you can a wife.
You are in? Then you are in for the good and the bad. When things go bad, you know whats the easy thing to do? To give up. To lose hope.

As for substitutions, I dont know enough about Ox or in the inner workings to be able to tell if this was good or not because on merit, Walcott should have been taken out much eariler.

And its funny how the peanut gallery has jumped on this substitution (Because hindsight is something sooooo few people have) but it was nowhere close to being bad enough to justify an Arsenal player about to enter the field.
Even booing a player playing badly is wrong but booing a player who hasnt even entered the field is something Blackburn fans would do.
Is that how you want to be known?
The Blackburn saga is so pathetic that you can see how the team plays differently home and away and while I have heard people feel bad for fans of long suffering teams, this has been the first time I have heard many people feel bad for players and a team over how the fans ‘support’ them.
As for the substitution, it wasnt even a risky one.
Putting in the 18yr old Niko Yennaris to face Nani at half time however was EXTREMELY risky and it payed off amazingly well. But no ‘expert’ masturbating online will bring that up because the narrative doesnt suit them.

As for ‘but I have never bought in to the theory that a crowd can change a game’, you have never been to a game in Turkey amongst the maniacs at the games (and starting any sporting event by cutting the throat of an animal to it can bleed to death and you can dab yourself in blood for good luck has got to pysch out players more than that stupid New Zealand Achy Breaky dance).
You obviously have never seen basketball in Greece where the same psychos light flares INSIDE. The US team in Athens was TOTALLY psyched out by the home crowd during the basketball games and the fans there were half as nuts as the Ultras that regularly show up for club games. Iverson would have shit his pants had it been them.. And unless youve been to Mexico and have had piss thrown at you by the mexicans sub-humans (what else do you call people who fling poo and piss?Monkeys would be racist.), then you cant say that home teams dont affect games. Not always but they sure do.

Does Wenger know what he is doing?
More than anyone here or on any board will ever dream of knowing.
But it makes the mouthbreathers feel better about themselves thinking ‘they’ know a team or its players better without having ever been within a sniff of the players or team.

by zeke12345 on Jan 25, 2012 9:50 PM EST reply actions  

Good point about Yennaris and I would add that starting Ox in the first place was also risky

I would venture that at the start of the game, most of us would’ve said that it was worth the risk because we could always sub him for Arshavin if things go bad.

Captain, there are doubt''s...

by Match Day 5 on Jan 26, 2012 10:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Wenger knows way more

for sure.

I hope you don’t think we’re all mouthbreathers. I have a fat nose. I can’t help it.

Also: hoping for the Emirates crowd to change a game might be a fruitless endeavor…

by Ted Harwood on Jan 26, 2012 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

So your response to critics is to insult them? How high minded of you.

I don’t know where you were when the game was on, but in the pub I was in every Arsenal fan was immediately scared the second Wenger called in Arshavin.

We KNEW Ox had to be subbed out. What we couldn’t understand was why Arshavin was being brought on instead of someone else.

We didn’t boo him. Half the pub was yelling encouragement, willing him to have a good game. But we sure as hell have the right to be critical of that substitution choice, because we KNEW he was not going to contribute. How did we know? Because we have the sample size of the whole goddamned season telling us that putting him on against one of the league’s top teams was not going to end well in his form.

We also knew putting on young Nico Yennaris against the likes of Nani was a big risk. But the difference was, Djourou wasn’t doing well anyway. It’s not like were going to downgrade by putting Nico in.

But what do I know? I’m just another “online masturbator”. Clearly Wenger DIDN’T make a mistake putting on Arshavin, because Wenger Always Knows™, right? He couldn’t possibly make a mistake because he’s clearly God!

SBN Bloglist:
The Short Fuse (Arsenal, EPL)
Sactown Royalty (Kings, NBA)

by silverace99 on Jan 26, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

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