Wilshire suffers injury setback, no word on return date
There's more pain in his ankle, according to Arsene. Nothing's going right for him this season.
UPDATE: the phrase "out for the season" has been uttered. No confirmation of that yet, but....derp
4 months ago
Tizoc
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Beg your pardon? I couldn't hear you
over the sound of me trying to knock over a middle school with my face
This is as big an indictment of the Arsenal medical staff as I’ve seen.
One week they are praising his remarkable progress and the next he’s had a setback?
I really wish someone would explain why they ought not feel extremely foolish.
setbacks happen, but I think what jiduthie is saying is that the Medical staff jumped the gun.
as in, this is why you don’t boast about something until you’re sure.
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by silverace99 on Jan 27, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, thanks.
It is possible that random chance has lead to this particular circumstance. It may not be their fault that they were made to look foolish, but they look foolish just the same.
That this incident is piled on top of our interminable injuries is really worrying. I’ll grant them that treating injuries is hard and unpredictable. But evaluating them must be easier. Why, then, are they clearing player’s to train only for them to get re-injured before they’ve even played a match?
Again, I’m quite willing to accept an explanation, but it’s time for an outside expert to give it. I’m less and less willing to believe bad luck.
And what I'm saying is we don't know if the medical staff jumped the gun or not
you don’t boast about something until you’re sure.
100% agree, but for all we know the medical staff was sure. Injuries are very, very slippery things – there’s no one cause, there’s no smoking gun. So Wilshere could have been cleared by the medical staff because they saw no reason not to clear him, and then he had a setback.
Say you break your ankle. You have the surgery, you wear the cast, you generally do everything you’re supposed to. After the healing process is complete, your doctor gives you a clean bill of health, because your x-rays and MRI results show that it has healed properly. Then, as you’re leaving the doctor’s office, you feel a twinge in your ankle. You go back in, tell the docs what happened, and you discover that there’s a newly torn ligament in your ankle.
That’s a setback. Was it caused by the doctor? Was it caused by the surgery? Was it caused by something random? We can’t know.
I know the Arsenal medical staff has come under question recently, and I have done some of that questioning. But I’m not willing to blame this on them because I don’t have nearly enough information.
We don’t know anything from this side of the ocean except what we read in the media, and to use that to say this is “as big an indictment of the Arsenal medical staff as I’ve seen” is a bit hyperbolic.
Yikes! Simultaneous replies!
My problem is that this season and the last we have seemed to be adversely affected by injuries. Previously, I was willing to blame it on bad luck or bias in thinking that our team suffered more than others.
Here we have a clear case of people claiming miraculous recovery, only to have that miracle result in more months out.
You’re right, we don’t know what is happening within Arsenal’s medical staff. But at some point questions must be asked. You have an Arsenal blog. So tell us if our injuries are abnormally bad in relation to the rest of the league. Tell us if there are experts in the field who might have insight to whether Arsenal might have made a mistake.
Saying “we don’t know” isn’t an answer to a trend that seems real from our point of view.
I have actually tried to do the research on your first question
and it’s almost impossible to do. Teams don’t quantify injuries – at least not in a way that is public and accessible. All we know is “x player is out for x weeks”, and a very generic injury report. And there is very little in the way of organized injury history. I would love to get more information, but it is not available.
Just because we are a blog does not mean we have any inside information or connections with the club that would allow us to. We try, but all we generally can do is opine.
And saying "we don't know" doesn't mean I, or we, shouldn't care
it’s just that right now there’s no way for us as outsiders to get a better handle on things.
I’m sorry to bust your balls here, but thats a complete cop out.
First, figure out the starting eleven for all the EPL teams for the past three years. Judgment calls will have to be made. Then figure out how many “first eleven” games were lost by each team. Does Arsenal fair any worse? My suspicion is actually no until this year, but I still think it would be a worthwhile exercise.
Second, call a sports therapist. Any would do as long as she actually holds a job within a sport. What are the main things she looks for in recovery from a stress fracture? What are the chances of clearing a player too soon? Would an immediate re-injury indicate a bad call on the part of the medical staff?
I realize my last post may have been a bit harsh...
its a lot of work. And this blog is fun and worthwhile without that sort of rigor.
It’s just frustrating when people say “We can’t know, so lay off!” When really its something we could have a better handle on.
I've thought about doing what you propose
the problem is is that there’s no historical log of injuries, and it is a ton of work to keep track of on your own, too, for all 20 teams, to have comparables for Arsenal, etc.
Not saying someone shouldn’t do it, though.
by Ted Harwood on Jan 27, 2012 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think it would be as hard as that. Once you have the “ideal” starting eleven you count each of their appearances. Its not a perfect scientific study, players might be held back for reasons other than fitness(saving them for other competitions for instance) but it would give us an idea whether or not the injury bug has hit Arsenal particularly hard. More then that, the data collected would probably contain quite a few other insights which would provide more than just an article’s worth of content.
Don’t dwell on the injury lists. See how many games each starter played. You could simplify it by only taking the top 6 teams for the last few years. Or, hell, even just the top 8 teams this year.
I see what you're saying
But as you point out, that doesn’t really answer the question “how many starting XI man-matches were lost to injury”, especially given how much rotation managers like AVB, Rafa Benitez, and SAF have done in the past. I think it’s a good idea in theory, but I just worry that the margin for misinterpretation becomes too great.
by Ted Harwood on Jan 27, 2012 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
True, but even having the rotation information would be good. If all the top teams are rotating more than we are, that could be a source of injuries.
Moreover, that they are rotating where Arsenal isn’t has potential for an article in itself.
Afterall, injuries really aren’t important unless they impact on the team that is able to play. Are other teams in the league able to play their first team more often? That’s really the question I think is most relevant. With a few caveats, I think you’d capture most of that by just looking at appearances.
I’ll grant you though, that as we get into the weeds my ground has shifted somewhat.
You probably won’t be able to provide a clear cut analysis on Arsenal’s injury history, regardless of your diligence.
You might be able to provide an analysis of whether Arsenal is able to field it’s first eleven with a frequency matching that of other top teams.
I think that might be enough.
If you got the time, go for it.
You could also post on the other EPL sites and ask their people for help. I think it would make for a pretty interesting article.
Captain, there are doubt''s...
I’ve actually “applied” for writer’s position on another Arsenal site without success.
Thus I’m unwilling to spend the time necessary to collate the data. I’m similarly unwilling to spend my time on “fan posts”.
Wachtel(I think!) had earlier expressed interested in collecting data on football. I’d be more than happy to help him or anyone else in whatever capacity might be appropriate.
I’m no longer looking for a writer’s position, however.
Fair enough. To make it worthwhile it does seem like would take a fair bit of work.
Captain, there are doubt''s...
I don't mean this to sound snarky
but if you’re unwilling to spend the time to find an answer to your question, why do you expect that others will be willing to spend that time for you? Roll up your sleeves, dig in, and see what you find – and I’d be happy to help.
This blog is not anybody’s paid gig. We all have jobs and lives. About six months ago, I spent the better part of an entire weekend trying to compile historic injury information by team, and information to the depth at which I wanted is simply not available. Teams don’t compile it, or at least not for public consumption.
I wasn’t even looking for rocket-science data; I was looking for number and types of injury, games missed, recovery periods, etc. But I couldn’t find anything that wasn’t anecdotal, and that really didn’t help me in my quest.
“Are other teams in the league able to play their first team more often” is not the original question – as you said above, there are other factors (cup competitions, etc) that play into that, so while that would be an interesting question to answer, it is not even close to the same question as “is Arsenal’s medical/training staff demonstrably worse than others in the league”, which is the question I was trying to answer.
As things stand now, without access to each team’s medical staff, I don’t believe my question is answerable – but I never once said it doesn’t need to be. It’s just that without access, it is currently impossible to find the data necessary to answer the question satisfactorily.
I would like to point out that you can't make a direct comparison between Arsenal and other teams
because playing style is different. Arsenal play at a more fast pace tempo then anyone else in the EPL. That puts more of a strain, thus more injuries
And requires players to be in near perfect fitness
or else they are hurting the whole system.
Captain, there are doubt''s...
I think the rotation point is for sure a good one
and probably a big piece of our woe pie. (“Woe pie?” sheesh, Ted)
Our squad depth is probably our biggest issue in recent times…lots of problems—tactical, injuries—probably stem from it.
by Ted Harwood on Jan 27, 2012 1:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
REC'd FOR WOE PIE MAKE IT GREEN BITCHES
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It's not a cop out
because that comparison doesn’t tell you anything. All it tells you is games lost, but there’s no background as to why. Do you count someone who had the flu as a liability as far as the medical staff goes?
I’m not saying “lay off”. I’m saying we don’t know what we don’t know and until those things can be known, we can’t make blanket statements about the efficacy of one medical staff over the other.
Maybe at this point...
…I will just expect to him be out the rest of the season. No need to risk further injury jeopardizing next season. Should he be able to come back this season, bonus.
I
Who is Wilshire?
Whoever he is I hope his ankle feels better. :c)
by Sabrina Dessipe on Jan 27, 2012 12:01 PM EST reply actions
I’m not going to blame the medical staff because like pdb said, we don’t really know any of the circumstances. It’s just hard to understand why this keeps happening to Arsenal. Every club has injuries, but Arsenal seem to have at least one player each year with a perpetual injury saga like this.
Either that, or some thug like Shawcross breaks one of the Arsenal player’s legs. The amount of freak occurrences (if they are that) is such that the law of averages should dictate that Arsenal goes the next 20 years without a single injury. I’m guessing that isn’t going to happen.
by LouisMurphy'sLaw on Jan 27, 2012 12:09 PM EST reply actions
There is some suggestion that the Emirates pitch is tough on players
it’s basically astroturf at this point—it’s very hard and unforgiving.
I’m not saying that’s a cause of anything, but it’s one potential ingredient in the injury stew.
by Ted Harwood on Jan 27, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
How awesome was the pitch at Highbury?
Every time I watch a game I was just amazed at how perfect it looked. Good times.
Captain, there are doubt''s...
I think it's a little skewed because our injuries always seem to affect our best players and starters:
Cesc broke his leg 2 yrs ago, missed some time last year, Robin last year, TV5, Sagna, Jack, Szczezny dislocating his thumb last year.
Captain, there are doubt''s...
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